Need some assistance from AF/AR timer wiz

[Fire32NJetta]

So i got an ARCL/AF timer setup. They had ghetto rigged ontop of the old decoder in the ARCL and had wires from little DTMF boxes ran to attack and cancel. I disconnected all the wires from the radio box that ran into the timer. When i powered it up i found it had been shut off mid cycle for whatever the reason, and the power on light was burnt out. Do the mini-switches trip the siren when they are in the up or down position when they go over the cogs? The test button doesnt seem to do anything and neither does cancell. Speaking of cancel the grey wire from the cancel button runs to position 16 on the terminal strip, which doesnt have an input to it. If i press Alert, Attack, or Fire a relay clicks when im holding the button down and for some reason i need to hold the button for about 5 seconds otherwise the timer wont keep going. Should this relay be clicking whenever the roller goes over an activation point on the cog? Im sorry if my description sucks. Can someone help me with info on how to test this and maybe some pictures of a known correctly setup AR/AF timer wireing.

[JasonC]

So i got an ARCL/AF timer setup. They had ghetto rigged ontop of the old decoder in the ARCL and had wires from little DTMF boxes ran to attack and cancel. I disconnected all the wires from the radio box that ran into the timer. When i powered it up i found it had been shut off mid cycle for whatever the reason, and the power on light was burnt out. Do the mini-switches trip the siren when they are in the up or down position when they go over the cogs? The test button doesnt seem to do anything and neither does cancell. Speaking of cancel the grey wire from the cancel button runs to position 16 on the terminal strip, which doesnt have an input to it. If i press Alert, Attack, or Fire a relay clicks when im holding the button down and for some reason i need to hold the button for about 5 seconds otherwise the timer wont keep going. Should this relay be clicking whenever the roller goes over an activation point on the cog? Im sorry if my description sucks. Can someone help me with info on how to test this and maybe some pictures of a known correctly setup AR/AF timer wireing.

Its been so long since I've had an AF I'm forgetting how they work. Here is a wiring diagram of an AF, if you IM me tonight I can send a larger resolution picture. *edit: incorrect sentence removed*




Also, for some odd reason, my power light would never stay on if there was a lot of ambient lighting (I kid you not, I don't know how, but it really did, baffled me very much!)

[Daniel]

As far as the indicator lights go, these have neon bulbs. After 20-30 years of constant use, they get light sensitive. When the room is dark, they will come on or flicker, but will go out when exposed to light. Most electronics stores that are not Radio Shack have near-identical models for $5 or so. Note that if you decide to replace it with a blue or green neon indicator, the phosphor-coated blue and green bulbs inside will only last a couple of years before getting markedly dimmer. Also, make sure you get the right voltage. A 240 volt indicator will work on 120 volts, although somewhat dimmer, but a 120 volt indicator will pop on 240 volts. If it were my timer, I'd replace the neon lights with those old jeweled incandescent indicators from the 50's that hold a C-7 bulb, but I'm a notorious anachronist.

[Fire32NJetta]

Funny thing, i put the jumper from 15 to 16 inplace as i did not have one, and it works propery now AND cancel works aswell. Should something be clicking on when i hit test or no? Sadly i dont have an eddy wheel in here as i thought all AF's did. I realized that fire signal was only a variation of attack. Another question. Should the microswitches that control the siren click when they are pressed in? If so then i think the clicker is busted on the fire switch as it does not make said sound.

[JasonC]

Funny thing, i put the jumper from 15 to 16 inplace as i did not have one, and it works propery now AND cancel works aswell. Should something be clicking on when i hit test or no? Sadly i dont have an eddy wheel in here as i thought all AF's did. I realized that fire signal was only a variation of attack. Another question. Should the microswitches that control the siren click when they are pressed in? If so then i think the clicker is busted on the fire switch as it does not make said sound.

Nothing should click when you hit test, it bypasses everything. Cancel will work with the jumper in place, it wont without it. The eddy wheel timer you are referring to is in the RCM3 or RCM6 control panels that house the motor starters. The AF just "tells" the eddy wheel and it's circuits when to cut on and off. The microswitches should click when pressed upward.


Wow...I'm stupid. I just realized I told you to cut the jumper on terminals 15 and 16. I meant to say add one (you did that correctly). Heh.....loooong day already!!!!

[Fire32NJetta]

Ok good deal. I guess my fire microswitch is dead then. Know where i might be able to get a replacement? Also i see you can align the cogs. When the timer shuts off should all of the rollers be in the up position? Also i need to know how to test the outputs to make sure its working right. Its kinda confusing because it has two terminals, one "to fire signal" and one "to air raid signal". Which one do i need to test on and then hook up later.

[JasonC]

Ok good deal. I guess my fire microswitch is dead then. Know where i might be able to get a replacement? Also i see you can align the cogs. When the timer shuts off should all of the rollers be in the up position? Also i need to know how to test the outputs to make sure its working right. Its kinda confusing because it has two terminals, one "to fire signal" and one "to air raid signal". Which one do i need to test on and then hook up later.

The roller switches are expensive. You can order one form mouser.com When the timer shuts off, everything should be in the up position (except the motor feed cam I believe). Testing the outputs is simple. Basically the timer is one big automatic switch. You can put a battery and light in line with the terminals to check everything.

[Robert Gift]

As far as the indicator lights go, these have neon bulbs. After 20-30 years of constant use, they get light sensitive. When the room is dark, they will come on or flicker, but will go out when exposed to light.

Funny, Daniel.
I went to a lot of trouble to access and install a NE-2? above the analogue clock in my GE Range with overhead broiler.
It nicely illuminated the clock face -until it became dark in the kitchen.
Then, the neon bulb WENT OUT!!!
Turning on the kitchen light, or shining a flashlight on it, IT LIT!
(The neon gas needed the little extra boost of light energy to get it to reach it's conductive threshold.)
This principle is used to allow radiation detectors to sense passage of radiation through the detector tube.
Just below it's conductive threshold, a radioactive partical takes it over that threshold and a click is heard.)

[SoundOff]

^ I had an old power strip/surge protector that did the same thing as well with the indicator light in the switch.

[Daniel]

As far as the indicator lights go, these have neon bulbs. After 20-30 years of constant use, they get light sensitive. When the room is dark, they will come on or flicker, but will go out when exposed to light.

Funny, Daniel.
I went to a lot of trouble to access and install a NE-2? above the analogue clock in my GE Range with overhead broiler.
It nicely illuminated the clock face -until it became dark in the kitchen.
Then, the neon bulb WENT OUT!!!
Turning on the kitchen light, or shining a flashlight on it, IT LIT!
(The neon gas needed the little extra boost of light energy to get it to reach it's conductive threshold.)
This principle is used to allow radiation detectors to sense passage of radiation through the detector tube.
Just below it's conductive threshold, a radioactive particle takes it over that threshold and a click is heard.)

Robert, I stand corrected. What you said is actually what happens -- the light comes ON with ambient light. I was half asleep when I wrote it, and I've been playing with neons since I was a kid. What is most embarrassing is that I recently restored an old electromechanical "digital" clock from the 70's that used a motor and cams to illuminate 24 NE-2 bulbs that formed a 7-segment clock display. Most of the bulbs were light sensitive. Not a bad clock though, since I bought it for $1 at a surplus store, put $4 worth of new bulbs in it, and sold it for $52 on Ebay.