What vehicle sirens are loudest at a distance?

[Robert Gift]

I suspect electronic.
Lower frequencies travel farther.
An electronic siren at it's lowest frequency (bottom of it's wail sweep)
is still putting out full volume.

An electromechanical at low frequency is not pulling in as much air and therefore it's volume is decreased.
Also, in electronic, most sound energy is projected forward.
Electromechanical sound is dispersing in most directions.

CP-100 speakers seem best at projecting lower frequencies.
Followed by TS-100 with shorter exponential pathway, then the compact speakers.
Though the Whelen wide flat speaker has a remarkably long exponential path, 3+? feet!!!, it seemed to be least efficient at projecting sound.

Any thoughts?

[StonedChipmunk]

Depends on the direction the vehicle is facing. As you said, electromechanical sirens disperse sound in all directions, while electronic sirens mainly shoot the sound straight forwards. If you were to the side of the vehicle, electromechanical would be MUCH louder.

From my experience in sirens (which occurs about once an hour over here... we live in the ghetto of Chattanooga, TN, so there's a bunch of ambulances and the occasional firetruck), I'd say that in general, electromechanical sirens are much louder, but more expensive and have too much current draw. I mean come on, you're comparing a computer chip to a hunk of metal about as big as your head (Q's aren't that small, you know...). You can really see the size of a Q here, if you are curious.

Of course, this can be even more clearly told using outdoor warning sirens. You know how the Thunderbolt is much, much louder than some piece-of-crap electronic siren, but a Thunderbolt costs more to operate (electricity bills)? It kinda shows how electromechanical is much louder, but less efficient.

[Robert Gift]

Thanks for your link, Monk.
I can't believe they have a bell on that new engine.
I thought bells went out decades ago.
They are expensive and useless.

Occasionally I work on Qs. Just stretched a Q brake solenoid return spring which became compressed.
How does a spring like that fail???

Yes, the Qs draw so much inrush current.
And they're heavy and bulky.
They emit sound everywhere, a lot of which goes where it is not needed;
up to the sky, back, to the sides, etc. Sides is nice for intersections, otherwise it is noise pollution.
Aurora FD has changed out some Qs and replaced them with eQs.
Maybe I can get one.
Most people say I haven't got a Q.

[JasonC]

Thanks for your link, Monk.
I can't believe they have a bell on that new engine.
I thought bells went out decades ago.
They are expensive and useless.

Occasionally I work on Qs. Just stretched a Q brake solenoid return spring which became compressed.
How does a spring like that fail???

Q's are definitely louder than their electronic counterparts.

Many fire trucks order up new bells for their apparatus. Obviously, they aren't warning devices, but rather traditional decorations. They cost about as much as a Q siren though.

As far as the solenoid spring, stuff just gets corroded and jammed and the spring wears out. Easy to replace though.

[Robert Gift]

I can't believe they would waste money on a bell, especially at that cost.
WE have to pay for that nonsense.
There are so many other more important things to get rather than a decoration.
(I would have no objection to transplanting a bell from a previous piece of apparatus - if that is the case.)

I am disappointed that our Q spring failed.
It should have been a little bigger, not some flimsy piece.
Everything else, though, is well engineered and well made.
But I'm afraid to ask how much FS charged my department for FS's faulty spring.

[StonedChipmunk]

The bad thing about it is that it's controlled by a button on the dashboard. That probably cost a lot to get a motor in there that would hit the bell for just long enough to release and make the ringing sound. Why don't they just get a string or something? It'd probably cost a lot less. (see EDIT... this has changed)

Even worse is the fact that all of their pumpers have 2 electronic sirens, the Q, and the bell. Isn't that a bit of overkill??

EDIT: I found a clip of the bell and lights on their site. All I have to say is...
OH MY GOD. OH MY FREAKIN' GOD.
Excuse the blasphemy, but this bell is only a recording played back over the electronic sirens, and it sounds like crap!! It doesn't even sound like a bell!!!
Well, at least it probably didn't cost as much...

[Robert Gift]

The bad thing about it is that it's controlled by a button on the dashboard. That probably cost a lot to get a motor in there that would hit the bell for just long enough to release and make the ringing sound. Why don't they just get a string or something? It'd probably cost a lot less.

Yes. Absolutely ridiculous.
If you have a bell, it should be rung with a rope.
Why take ALL the fun out of it?
Why add more expense and complication?
What IDIOTS.

Who are they?
I'd like to to them this directly.

What wasters of funds.
They can use it far more wisely.
If I were a taxpayer there, I'd be angry.

[JasonC]

Fire departments who put bells on their apparatus usually will put it on only one truck (usually their best "show truck") for use in parades and such, mainly for purposes of nostalgia and "making noise" close to people without all the sirens and horns. Some bells are electrically operated, but there are bells on modern equipment (2006 E-One for example) that actually do have a "string" run up into the cab in the officers seat. Those bells are nice, and they are quality made.

Putting K5LA train horns on a fire truck, I believe, is a bigger waste of money than a bell. Stuttertone horns work just fine and they have a "fire truck" sound to the public. Train horns are just pointless on an apparatus running code 3 (though I'd be one happy person riding in that officers seat responding to a structure fire!)

As far as a waste of money, there are a LOT of other money pits on apparatus I'd be more concerned about. (i.e. a fully digital computerized pump panel $200k+)

Usually if a department has an antique apparatus, you will almost always find a bell on it, though its probably original.

[StonedChipmunk]

Who are they?
I'd like to to them this directly.

Here's the link to their site:
http://www.signal51group.com/images/New ... 05/nr.html
It seems like it's just a fan site or something, though, but I suppose you could get the city name and then contact them.

[JasonC]

Signal 51 is the auxiliary support group for the Shreveport, LA fire department. They have an awesome site in which I have visited for years.

Personally, I think the bell is worth it. When kids or school groups would visit my fire station, we'd always let them hop in the truck and yank on the bell cord. (we'd let the older ones sound the horn/siren quickly) That means a lot to a kid that age, especially a 3 or 4 year old. The bell is also tradition. Fire departments are heavily rooted in tradition. That, combined with parade uses, and the fact that the bell is an added decor to a truck, makes it a very worthwhile addition in my opinion.

I believe the fire department knows whats best in how to spend money. A lot of people spend many hours "specking" out a truck best suited for their needs. Like I said earlier, there are definitely other more serious money pits than a bell.

Fire departments are more than just penny pinchers and insurance pawns. They are a vital part of every community across America. Traditions and measures should be, and are enacted, to preserve a very unique public service.